Vicente Wolf Blog

that’s so strange. what a whacky request! i have to say that although three designs with no budget is way more than one design WITH a budget, i don’t think a lot of these newer HGTV shows do a lot to help. it’s very much about having people throw their designs into your lap, almost paying YOU to choose their work instead of entrusting your home to them to create what will serve you and your space most beautifully.

people are funny.

Vicente,

I have been working in the design field for 6 years and opened my own firm a little over a year ago. I religiously read your blog and look to your interiors for inspiration and ideas on how to edit my own designs as well as dealing with certain issues that come up in the business of design. I’ve also visited your showroom in New York which I find amazing.

The particular issue of this unawareness and/or lack of appreciation for creating interiors and the depth of the design process is something that I have encountered twice in the past year. It is very frustrating when people do not understand this.

The solution I have found is to explain what my process entails, not just the creative process which in itself does not happen like magic; but the technical and secretarial process. In other words, take-off (measuring the space), floor plans, elevations, sketches, furniture selection that is well suited and within budget, availability, quotes from manufacturers etc…

I have also found that being very straightforward about what the design firm needs from the client is also helpful in setting the expectations between both parties.

Thanks for the inspiration and the blog!

Herbie (a fellow cuban-american designer in miami)

I’ve just gone through this too and was very frustrated. I was asked to design a living space, given no real budget, but told to incorporate some existing furniture. As you all know, this took me a while to pull together everything – I gave my proposal to the client and was then told that they wanted to purchase and do everything…. In the end, I sent a bill for my hours and walked away thinking “I can’t put my name to that”… I was so upset!

I don’t think those people want a home, they want a set. Which surely means you were not the designer for them anyway.

I just thought I would weigh in as someone who is not a designer but a tremendous admirer of great design (you being at the top of my list). I can honestly say that I was appalled by the clients you speak of. It would be such a coup and a privilege for me to be able to hire someone with your talent. That said, I can only feel sorry for people who fail to appreciate it or give it the respect it deserves. Actually, I find their ignorance and unabashed gall somewhat funny. Despite their obvious arrogance, they clearly have no idea what they are doing and it allows someone like me (who will unfortunately never be able to afford your talent and experience) an opportunity to mock them.

I have had developers ask a similar request, as well. Make design boards for their condos they are building. Then they will decide on which designer to use. Who is to say they won’t take my ideas, hard work ,and expertise… then turn around and implement my work on their own? I am happy to interview for jobs, but present my ideas w/o a fee? I don’t do that.

Hi Vicente,
And you post this just as I am about to post a question on our blog asking people to define interior design for me
The funny thing is that apparently it is the same all over the world, regardless in which country you live. I think this lack of understanding stems out of the percieved ease of what we do. You know, we choose a few fabrics a few paint colors a couch here a chair there and there you have it, a house. As one peson commented, everyone wants to become an interior designer, instantly.
One good thing about this whole story, which I think is very kind of you to share, that no designer is above this frustration and misunderstanding, even one like you Vicente, which I am sure will be a great help to young designers just starting out.

It’s appalling, isn’t it? Not only disrespectful, but these people completely miss the importance design plays in our every day life. It’s so much MORE than “just a few couches and wallpaper” ~ creating a backdrop for life is a huge undertaking. Where we live and work, how those spaces look, flow and well, “work” for lack of a better word, so greatly influences how we feel every day, and live our lives. I’m with Joni…I hope you said “no, thanks!”
Lidy

oops s/b (can relate to Paige Rense of AD’s editorial on the missing final payment people),

Here in Singapore, we face this practically ALL the time! It’s AMAZING to learn that this frustration is indeed INTERNATIONAL! And I’m even more AMAZED that a designer of your calibre and status has to suffer this too………

My take is that, sometimes, we as designers need to take some responsibilities too. Because we’ve continued to allow it, it’s slowly become a norm…….it’s only when we take pride in our profession that others will do likewise……

But I really like the way you drew the comparison with the computer programmer, Vicente! It felt great knowing he got a taste of his own medicine!

Hi Vicente…

Thank you for the follow on Twitter. I have been in the same situation as you many, many times. Clients ask me to create sample faux finishes, Venetian Plaster etc for them – and when I tell them that it will cost money to make the samples – some people are taken aback. “How long can that take you…a few minutes?” they ask. One woman had me make nearly 15 samples of a particular neutral shade that she just had to have on her walls. I made samples that matched her throw pillows exactly – but to her eyes, there was too much yellow in it. So, after a multitude of samples, I would up meeting her stringent requirements by mixing up a glaze of a chestnut/orange-ish brown tint with blue to make a very neutral tan glaze. Anyway – the room came out beautiful…but the client really didn’t have any consideration for the amount of time it took to create her perfect shade. If I added up all the time it took – I could have tripled my price!

I didn’t think that this could be happening to you – but I guess there are a lot of people out there, without a jot of creativity, who think that we are so gifted that it takes us no time at all to come up with a design plan…or a faux finish.

I love, love, love your work – don’t let these people get you down.

Thanks again…Linda Leyble
http://www.studioofdecorativearts.com
http://www.beautifulstagedhomes.blogspot.com

Its funny, I had always thought that once you’d achived a certain level of success in your field, that there would be a level of respect that came with it. I guess it can happen to anyone!

I agree …education! Some home design shows have dumbed down the process.

I have had clients place me in similar situations, or demand a dollar figure on the design fees up front, with out giving me their time to even explain what the project would entail “how much would it cost us for the design fees to design a kitchen… living room… bedroom etc” All I can say is that is costs a much as a piece of string is long. The variables are so great that until I know ALL the details, I can’t even ball park it.

I once had a client with with whom I knew budget was critical, so I made sure that my specs and selections were achievable over time and in her budget, and in most respects, she could do the purchasing on her own. Very flexible hey? I talked to suppliers, requested quotes, refered her to my contractors, presented the design plan and fabric selections. Then she got my invoice, AND fought me on it. Said she was ‘out’ all this money and had ‘nothing’ to show for it. Needless to say, I am not sure what has transpired since! The red flag here was I was designer #4….

From this client and others, I have learned to trust my gut. No matter how much you need the project, if there is a niggly feeling or a red flag… PAY ATTENTION! Then gracefully bow out. These jobs are always more trouble than they are worth.

my own little rant ….

Vincent
I cannot tell you how many times I have run into this. I think they watch too much HGTV. The show that gives the homeowner three designers, with three different plans and they choose the one they like.
People do not value our profession at all. Another issue that chaps my hide is payment. Im always the last to be paid. Clients get so upset when I charge late fees, despite the invoice stating that late fees will occur after 7 business days. I have had clients go 6 weeks without paying me because they “hadn’t gotten around to it”.
I have started charging for consultations, late payments and if someone wants to “wait and see” if I am their designer I charge for the proposal. Research and budgeting alone can take hours. I finally started asking my clients if they could go into work for a week, and work for free because the boss needed the extra help and they were the best for the job. What do you think they have said? They won’t work for free, and yet they feel that we should! AMEN to this post! Thanks and Im sorry for your frustration!

Well, well you have certainly stirred up the conversation with this one! I agree with you totally – it is very frustrating. The process of interior design is still very much misunderstood and suspect. (did you see the tweet RT from Home Designing this AM?it made me SO angry and it was an old article to boot!

RT @freshome 10 Things Your Interior Designer Won’t Tell You http://bit.ly/DF4AM
about 10 hours ago from web

I imagine part of that can be attributed to the nature of of the industry. There are no industry standards for what we do in terms of protocol, fee structure, design process etc. These can vary widely from designer to designer. Some charge only for time/ others time plus markup/ others will give you lots of ideas up front / others will only design after you commit, some will give you 3 options/ others come in with one complete design and total budget/ still others go little steps at a time and include the client in the designing process. No wonder the public is confused.

What amazes me is that a designer of your stature and world-wide reputation is still confronted with of this sort of thing…and that they are ‘shopping’ designers’ when you have such a distinctive and well-known style. I would have thought clients would come to you because they already know they want YOU!

Good question to raise, and I can sympathize.

I am laughing ruefully. I have had the same type of experience over the years with clients seeking graphic design. We call it a “shootout”, and you can really get in financial trouble if you devote too much time to pitching those clients who insist on free ideas upfront. Frequently they go with the cheapest firm and try to shoehorn the better ideas into a low budget. I don’t know if I am comforted or appalled that Vincente Wolf is facing a similar frustrating situation.

Ultimately, I suppose, there are people who just do not understand creativity. When creativity is used to solve design or communication problems, it calls for intelligence, experience and an almost scientific approach to execution. Some people see it as a gas pump with several grades that can be measured out in quantifiable amounts.

Thanks so much for sharing you experience, Mr. Wolf.

Vincent, This truly is not surprising. I guess this has happened to all of us. The general public is clueless. Clueless about many things. I am a designer of 27 years and recently have seen a change in our business, of which I’m sure the economy has created many changes. I talk about budget in the first meeting with my clients. I throw the ball back by comparing decorating to buying a car from a volkswagon to a Bentley and everything in between. I find most clients are a bit embarrased to ask for the volkswagon. I really hate the feel of interviewing for a job. The public has no idea the work that goes into presentation.
Cynthia Aiken

The “Architecture of Happiness”, one of my favorite books, is perhaps one of the more elegant statements of what you do and how it gives back. I suggest they read it.

Vicente, I have followed your work for quite a few years and was wowed by your lecture a couple of years ago at the Atlanta Decorative Arts Center. I must say that I was shocked that a designer of your experience and celebrity has encountered some of the same scenarios and ridiculous prospects that we have at our firm as of late. This change has been coming over the last few years and as aforementioned, the HGTV and DIY mentality merely adds insult to injury! Currently, I find myself further frustrated with the fact that people want you to put together a tremendous amount of work for free, not realizing the creativity, talent, labor, etc. involved to create these projects. So many premier homes are on the market right now that require a tremendous renovation effort due to the “design” work that their previous owners have done with the wave of a hand and a scribble on a piece of paper with out scaling or having the education or intuition to properly space plan. I feel confident that you will come up with a forum to educate the public and provide a positive way for designers to educate their clients without coming across as condescending, yet commanding the respect that we deserve!

Vincente-
Thank you for sharing your experience, as it is one that many designers have: end-user prospects who do not understand the design/designer process. May I share a perspective that is different from the comments that others have offered?
When end-users (buyers) don’t understand the process of using a designer, they bring their own process with them. That is what this end-user did, and what many do. There is nothing wrong with their process, it’s just not workable for designers and ultimately for the end-user, as it involves time without money, and giving ideas away with the ‘hope’ of getting the business. In other industries, it is how business is done, and even in contract/commercial design, it is a process that is sometimes used. So, the end-user isn’t evil or disrespectful, just uninformed and trying to do something that they think will provide them with the best solution – for them. When we couple their process with a lack of intake/qualifying on the designer part things start to break down quickly. What I mean by that designers need to have standard interview questions – every prospect, every time – that include “Have you worked with a designer before – if so, tell me about it?” “What have you established as a budget for this project?” “Are you speaking to any other designers and how will you decide who you want to work with?” as it lessens the element of surprise and heightens the communication and clarity between the end-user and the designer. Designers are chosen on lots of level, talent being just one of them. The ability to complete the project on time and on budget, work well with subs, manage obstacles, and bring the project to fruition with the relationship with the end-user intact are all part of the package. Design schools do a disservice to students by not preparing them for the reality of the business of design, and these lessons are often learned the hard way. The designers I coach often find their way to me out of the frustration of exactly what you illustrate. Thank you for letting designers know that this happens the ‘the best’ of designers, and that there is a forum for discussion and there is help out there if you need it. Happy Holiday weekend to you and your followers!

Dear Vicente:
Dealing with the situation you mentioned in your blog post is one of a handful of reasons why I no longer have interior design clients and instead focus on my embroidery business alone. I seldom found a client that allowed the design process to be creative; usually I was called in so late in the development of a project that I was constantly working around decisions that should not have been made.

Those of us working in the design community often deal with mind numbing tasks which start with a client and filter all the way down to workrooms. Budgets are requested before work is known – I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked to quote the price and lead time of an unknown or generalized project. “I’m not sure what the design will be but I need a price and a lead time to embroider a dining chair back…”

Wanting a well designed, organized house is one thing; wanting beautiful interiors and exteriors that fit the character and lifestyle of a person is an art that can not be created by spread sheet alone. I love what I do and I adore the best of what this business has to offer and am happy I have found a niche that gives me many creative rewards. I’m glad I can finally say no when I need or want to.

It just keeps on coming. A recent grad that I am mentoring mentioned she had answered a Craig’s list posting for a designer. She was not alone. The company replied to all the applicants on one email and said the work was to be done for free and they could use it in their portfolio. An angry return reply from one of the parties was copied to everyong and said that was totally disrespectful. The company has since found a budget but who knows how much. Each was to apply with their rate.
My advise to this young grad is give nothing away for free. Meet with them to find their needs and their budget. She will get the opportunity but I will be coaching her to ensure she is not taken for granted not mistreated. Of course they wanted someone inexperienced to get the most for the least. With work really tight, it is a terrible temptation to accept what is not acceptable.
Thanks for reminding us to step up to the plate and remember our worth.

Reading your blog is such an inspiration and a learning experience. When I read about your frustration knowing how big you are in your profession, it puts my little frustration in perspective. Thanks Vicente.

Unfortunately the people that you had in your office will never read this post or if they do will never understand it. The clients who do ‘get it’ are really the ones that benefit. They get to live in a home that is custom designed for them, one that supports them both physically and emotionally. A home that teaches their family and friends what it means to live well. The best compliment I ever had from a client was that when she comes home from work at night she can just relax, everywhere she looks is beautiful. How much is that worth, can we put a value on it. You Bet we Can. Great post Vicente!!!

Tracy & Patricia – I am sending this to a couple of clients right now!

If you haven’t seen it, watch it!

Hi, Vicente,

Please add my voice to those who are glad as well as sad to know that these issues are still found even in the upper echelons of the profession! As a relative newcomer to the field (professionally), it really helps me feel better about the people I’m encountering to know that it’s something that’s just part and parcel of what we do. People are always going to want something for nothing, particularly if they really don’t perceive the value in what it is they’re asking for, or understand what it really takes.

I do agree that the issue is essentially two-fold, namely a lack of education and knowledge on the part of the consumer/client, and the horrible disservice that HGTV has done to the profession.

I will just add that I think the industry’s professional organizations have failed the whole profession miserably. Instead of spending millions trying to pass restrictive, anticompetitive legislation that would put thousands of people out of work (please see http://nodesignlegislation.wordpress.com and http://idpcinfo.org for more information on this issue), we would all be so much further ahead if they’d spent that money instead on a strong advertising and educational campaign targetted at consumers to really teach them about what we really do.

As long as our existing professional associations are not on board with really educating end users effective, we are never going to see much of a change in this regard, because there’s no way that we as individuals can educate enough people to create the sea change in understanding and attitude that will be necessary for people to truly know and value what we do. I do think that now that the blog phenomenon is here, that may help, but we still need a lot more concentrated and coordinated effort that even extends into our schools down to the elementary level.

One thing that we must all learn to focus on, too, is the value that we bring to clients, how we can improve their lives. It’s no longer enough to just be the best, but we have to be able to convey *why* we should be the ones they hire much more cogently than we may have had to do in the past, and why it’s in their better interests to hire us.

BTW, I really enjoy your blog – and thanks so much for listing me in your blogroll!

Wendy Hoechstetter