Vicente Wolf Blog

I have had clients ask for discounts on fees but most don’t. Truly appreciative clients seem to understand this is how professional designers make a living. On the few occasions when it has come up, I have found it easy to firmly but politely refuse to alter my fee structure.

Bargaining is doing business. Some folks are very good at it. Designers have to be clear about how they charge and they have sell the value of their services every single day.

WELL

I HAVE TO SAY THAT I HAVE IN THE PAST ASK FOR DISCOUNTS, BUT THAT IS USUALLY WHEN I AM BUYING A LOT FROM ON VENDOR…. I BOUGHT ALL NEW LINENS AND MATTRESSES WHEN I MOVED AND IT WAS ALL ORGANIC SO IT WAS A LOT OF MONEY TO DO AN ENTIRE HOUSE IN NEW LINENS AND MATTRESS ( ORGANIC MATTRESS ARE AROUNG 6 THOUSAND DOLLARS EACH FOR THE BEST) I ASKED FOR A BREAK IN PRICE AND I GOT 10% OFF… I WAS VERY HAPPY FOR THAT…. THOSE ARE THE TIMES I ASK FOR A BREAK….

XXOO
MELISSA

I think it is very true that clients do not value design like they value other trades. However, I have not had problems with pricing furniture. I make sure that items are within the client’s comfort zone before presenting them. I give them a proposal that includes mark-up, freight, delivery….everything up front no surprise billing later. If they are unhappy with a price, or feel they cannot spend that amount, we go with something cheaper. Design fees are paid seperately than product, and it is clearly in the contract that until design fees are current, product may be withheld. I sure understand where you are coming from though!

My comment just posted at the same time as Daniel’s and I think he has a very good point. If everything is spelled out up front with no surprises. But I also think design time should be one fee (your creativity is what they want after all!), and product billed sepreately at a “presented” price. Presented price would cover all costs and time involved in processing the order.

I’m not discouraged by how often clients approach us based on cost rather than vision and skill, because it is a sophisticated client that understands the relationship of quality design services and products to specific fees and/or commissions. That Vincente has this as an on-going difficulty, as do we all, shows what a complex issue it is. Even the best and brightest don’t get a pass! I agree that it is worse in this economy than before, but only by degrees. And I don’t believe that we have “sucker” printed on our foreheads. Doctors and lawyers are not challenged as much since they provide a “necessity”. And though columns and couches are necessities, it’s the custom design intangibles and quality that distinguish us from a tract builder or furniture store. The problem is that so many clients believe they could do this all themselves without experience given just a little time. And it takes a client with self-knowledge to distinguish between the awkward results they would create and the balance and harmony we offer. It is always a legitimate option to allow them to go do it themselves! So it is ever our lot to sell our unique skills each darn time we step up to the plate. Batter up, y’all! – Gary

Vicente, yo are so right, and I cannot tell you how many people
would like me to supply my art to decor their space for a month or two. I am not willing to do that. My art takes, time creativity materials, and the entire process of a beautifully completed work of art.

Karena
Art by Karena

PS Interior Designers need to assist their clients in budgetary funds for beautiful art up front.

I think it is all about transparency, as stated by Marc. If the fee structure is negotiated up front than I think that clients should have no right to negoiate further for a “break” or greater discount. Some designers work with a set fee, others use a per hour fee, while others work on a commission or cost-plus. I feel that these are all viable options and have to be used based on the designer’s comfort level and then related to the negoiated contract with the client. I find it offensive when client’s assume that they should be able to mid-project negoiate a greater discount. Save the negoiating for another project or part of your life!

One size certainly does not fit all. Research on various pricing models from throughout the country shows few are the same. Too many are elliptical contrivances that markdown to markup, and blur the credibility test. We know it, and so do most intelligent consumers who don’t buy anything else this way. Many more of them should be clients of interior designers, like all of you. Daniel has a progressive point of view.

This is a different issue if we consider it from the client’s perspective. They intelligently place value on what matters most – not stuff per se, but the experience of co-creating and living in a beautiful, personal, comfortable and well-designed residence.

So savvy designers like Daniel have realized the benefits of professional fee-based income (rather than pay as you go for ‘time and materials’). They know they are worth the premium that custom design affords their clients, and don’t back down. And they have pulled back the veil that obscures their clients’ confidence in the prices they are presented with.

More designers and decorators are earning rewards as professional brands far more so than as purchasing agents. This simple change would affect the entire business model ‘to the trade’ and help fill a rich client pool for designers. Design would be more transparent; design brands would earn more trust which gets redeemed as value and deserving income. Everyone wins: it’s how the best businesses work today.

Fortunately, there is a national movement heading in this direction. It is based on creating greater awareness of the real relationship between prices for design and the value of design. Our opportunity is to inspire consumer desire for design, while demystifying how to find it from a designer, and why it is so worthy of their investment.

A designer in Newport Beach, CA said it so well, “I sleep better at night knowing that what I design for my clients is right at any price and doesn’t affect my clients’ confidence in my judgment.” The price is right.

If a client cannot handle the costs at one time then I try to encourage them to save for that special piece and let’s do what is affordable for them right now. I have clients that have been with me for over 10 years due to this philosophy. Most of my clients today only do a room or section at a time and I enjoy getting the next call from them a few months later. Keeps the money flowing! Be up front with the customer from the start so there is no misunderstanding!

It’s such a complicated issue. Thanks for starting the discussion. In the Boston area, I don’t know any professional designers, other than architects, who charge fee only.

fyi – in litigation you cannot recover “commissions” a design fee you can -a very good reason to change the language of your proposal letter.

…to do the work.

In principle I agree that fees only makes more sense from a client perspective and lack of conflict of interest – however, I also find you’d have to charge an astronomical hourly rate or flat fee to survive without profits from product resale. To Vincente’s point, the expenses associated with running a business are high. So, until the public decides they’re willing to pay a substantially higher design fee, they’ll be stuck paying cost plus.

I also agree with the sentiment that if you select design items which make sense with the client’s budget to begin with, you’re less likely to be asked for a discount.

It’s such a good point you make. And, YES, people ask dentists, etc for discounts! I work at a veterinary hospital and people routinely ask for discounts on the exam fee, which is $50! Of that $50, the doctors make $15. Currently, in our society, people are being encouraged to demand discounts. Magazines, newspapers, television all promote ways to receive services at a discounted rate. How does that help the economy? Doesn’t it devalue the service provider?

We love what we do but its a business. This is how we make a living.
If I were to discount something for a client I feel I would be cheating all my other clients.

Try as we might to nail this down once and for all – with thoughtful, creative, considered suggestions – the discussion continues. My observation? It’s just NOT going away. Even when we convince each other, our clients react. We’re not done with this yet.

I believe in the concept of charging a design fee for design time, whether this is structured as an hourly rate, or some form of flat fee. I also believe that one not merely is justified in, but should be, charging a markup on product if providing product. I don’t like the term commission. A retail store does not charge commission, they charge markup. Here is how I handle it: I charge a design fee, always, for every project. The fee is non-negotiable but there are options of how to handle it, such as hourly, or project-based. I don’t like to use the term flat fee because it implies no matter what your decision-making or other style of client and no matter how much time you want, you will pay the same price. I have one type of project based fee for projects that involves a definined scope of work for a defined fee, with a defined amount of edits/reworks. After that, additional help is available hourly. I have another type of fee that is based on a percentage of a project budget, on the theory that projects with lower budgets are for a) clients who can afford less (in one way this is sliding scale) and conversely b) that projects with higher budgets are for clients who will want/need/demand more time. This is somewhat accurate, altho lower budgets can be more difficult but still that goes back to a). Still there is defined limit, it is defined as up to 30% more hours than you would get if paying hourly, and I keep loose track of hours and warn them if they approach the limit. This gives them the sense of essentially they are getting a discount with this method, which in essence is true, so I don’t get a lot of request for discount, just people pick which method they like and leave it at that. As for product, I put it this way. My design fee pays for the time it takes to design, layout, present (renderings, proposals, etc) and specify (product is specified by brand, model number, color, etc.). I use products that are both ‘to the trade’ and available otherwise. Then clients are free to source, shop, and obtain all products themselves. If they would like me to do this task, I am happy to do so, and they will simply be paying me retail on a product that is purchased by me wholesale. My language is essentially that as is standard in a retail situation, wholesale invoices are not provided, that I will strive to provide a fair market price, that my markup varies with the amount of my wholesale discount (and also with how difficult or time consuming it is to obtain the product, what the total price of the product is, and whether i am cutting Way back on my own fair markup just to get a better product that i want to see in the project to fit in the budget) and that my average markup is 10 to 40%. I really don’t get arguments with this, altho there are some products that clients want to get themselves, or have asked me if I would cut my markup on one particular product out of the whole of their design (altho annoyed, I said yes, because I sensed they wanted to win one and overall the project was big enough that this was fine). Most of my clients have me provide most of the product. I simply define this as paying for the time it takes to source, pick up, deal with, check quality, return, guarantee, etc etc, product, which is in reality a great deal of time, and it is a separate task from designing. In general, they will pay the same amount to me as if they bought it themselves, and then I will be the one dealing with all this stuff and I will guarantee the product personally for at least a year. Purchasing takes a great deal of time, this is why there are people in large businesses called ‘Purchasing Agents’ whose only job is to buy stuff. From any kind of ‘moral’ perspective a) it is moral to make money, we are in a business, if we wanted to be saving the world we would be social workers, and our clients want to make money for their time, skill, experience and intelligence for what they do for a living too, and b) it is not really all that moral to take a wholesale price, which we are specifically given by product suppliers for the purposes of making money, and pass it along as-is to our clients with no market, which effectively undercuts their retail prices (if they also sell retail, as many do) or undercuts the retail prices of their other vendors. This is not what they intend by giving us ‘designer discounts’ which are not discounts, they are wholesale pricing. The key to this system I have found is by making clients free to buy product through you or not, and even being willing to substitute other products in their design if they want. It does *not* mean telling them where to source products, if you go to Macy’s they will not tell you where else you can buy the stuff they sell, and that is not my job either. I can’t tell clients where to source most products anyway since I mostly get them wholesale. At any rate if they are paying me a fair price for my design, and if my markup is about equal to what they would pay at retail if they dealt with the shopping themselves, then we should both be happy.