Week 1
Recently clients of mine (let’s call them Mr. & Mrs. M) gave me a call about a house they were considering purchasing. A little background on Mr. & Mrs. M, they are a young couple with two children who I have worked with before on both of their NYC apartments.
They had asked me to come and see the house located in the Hamptons. The home was a hop skip and a jump from my home in Montauk I went over that weekend. I had been warned previously to be “prepared” BUT nothing could have prepared anyone to enter into this wreck destruction hell hole of the house.
A family had been living there before and the husband seemingly had tried to renovate the house himself, he had started several projects but never really completed any of them. As I walked into the living room there were wires hanging everywhere, pieces of the floor were missing, kitchen cabinets were sitting in the middle of living room and that was just the beginning.
To add insult to injury, there was mouse droppings everywhere and clothing strewn all over the floors which created a stench that was unbelievable. It seems the wife in utter desperation had divorced her husband but they could not move on until they sold this very Grey Gardens-ish house.
During the first initial walk through Mrs. M kept repeating over and over ,“ I just know a mouse is going to jump on me” and saying to Mr. M, “Are you sure you really want to get into this? I want a new house but I do not think this can ever be salvaged?”
Mr. M. is in a design related business so throughout his career he has put up many buildings and has a very good sense of construction. He could see through the chaos and decay (not to mention smell) the possibilities that the house had. It was a coast guard house built in the very late 19thcentury that had been moved to this site in the 60’s and had been half-assed renovated. The property was lovely and the house had a good spirit to it. So when asked my opinion on if it were do-able? I said yes, if they were willing to understand that to suit their purposes the house had to be completely renovated and the space allocation rethought.
But I am telling you nothing was salvageable not the floors, not the wall, not the windows, not the crooked fireplace, and not the sinking front porch. It was truly a disaster. They bought the house.
For the next couple of months I am going to be sharing with you the progress we have made, the mistakes that occurred and corrected the process of selection and the give and take any project requires. So to get you started here are pictures of the front and back of the house along with the plan.
Front of House
Front Porch
Back of House
First Floor
Second Floor
If you want to play along check in weekly and let me know what you would do.
Next week I start the design process with the clients…
#1 by The Neo-Traditionalist on September 15, 2010 - 8:47 pm
Can’t wait to see where this takes you! They are a brave couple and you a brave designer! Something tells me it will all work out ; )
#2 by Mary on September 15, 2010 - 9:01 pm
What a brave couple. Good thing they were smart and hired and expert. The sunroom is VERY seductive. Can’t wait to see the progress.
#3 by EM on September 15, 2010 - 9:20 pm
I have a million questions. Was there a foundation, ie, regarding the sinking porch: had the foundation crumbled or was it sitting on soil? Were the floors rotted out? How do you determine the salvagability of the windows? On This Old House they salvage things like that all the time by replacing panes and they make special new storm windows for energy purposes that fit over the windows now.
Do you have to work through a Preservation Committee? The main part of the house actually looks a little older than late 19th century. Will you be letting a group of historic preservation students in to do any documentation before you do your necessary demolition?
Wouldn’t rethinking the space allocation depend largely upon how the owners want to use the space? If it were me, I’d turn one of those rooms into a library, make the kitchen smaller, add a butler’s pantry, and do major adjustments to the upstairs to add a dressing room. I’d also put working shutters back on the windows.
If the house was moved in the 60s, where do the basement stairs lead? They didn’t dig out a basement, did they?
Since there are structural changes, do you need to employ a licensed architect? For all the “Sunday decorators” this is a great example of how having a flair for color just doesn’t cut when it comes to a big job.
If you do get rid of the basement stairs, you should put a cupboard there. They have two small children, you said. A cupboard under the stairs….
#4 by Nancy on September 15, 2010 - 9:31 pm
I think this is a great idea — I look forward to watching the progress with this total rehab project. Over 20 years ago, my husband and I bought a structurally sound home that had the same issues you mentioned — the previous husband NEVER repaired anything that became broke during their time in the house (did I mention that they also had 7 very active children!?) Anyway after we completed the remodel/rehab (everything from totally gutting rooms to changing the design of the roof line, we moved, due to a job transfer. We’ll always remember that house (but, seriously, haven’t any desires to ever do that again!) Sometimes, you’ll have to laugh to keep from crying — but, if anyone can tackle this project, and make it a beautful home — it’s you. Good luck.
#5 by scone on September 15, 2010 - 10:07 pm
At least the toilets don’t empty into an open cesspool in the basement– voice of experience.
It’s got good bones and a great floor plan, all things considered. Anything else can be solved with time and money. A lot of money. And the owners have an experienced designer who knows construction, and has a great Rolodex. That’s critical.
#6 by Angela on September 15, 2010 - 10:08 pm
Wow how I’d love to get my hands on this project! Will keep an eye on progress and can’t wait to see this home being brought back to life. Good luck Vincente
#7 by Ann Marie on September 15, 2010 - 10:49 pm
Cool! Just the sort of project I love. Can’t wait to see what you are doing to save this little gem.
#8 by Gary Nelling on September 15, 2010 - 11:18 pm
Oh wow! What a great challenge!
I think the house has good bones even if it does have osteo-arthritis and tendonitis! I like the massing created by the larger first floor/smaller second floor and like the wood siding and tall windows. The first floor rooms are pretty spacious, have good proportions and appear within good framing lengths, so you should mostly just have to re-frame for design purposes. I like the large entry foyer with a potential open stair above the tread level. The enclosed front porch seems uninviting. I like that the open contiguous spaces that wrap around the stair rather than a conventional center hall. I think there are ample opportunities for a library, media/music room or office in the existing spaces and/or first floor master bedroom expansion. I agree with EM that the kitchen seems large and vacant, and should be redeployed. The second floor bedrooms are just OK being short on closet space except for the master bedroom, but successfully arranged relative to existing windows. I’m sure there are other spatial/re-arrangement opportunities there. It appears that the ground slopes away from the structure, a plus for drainage and a dry basement.
The basement stair and ‘60s move suggest a basement, which if properly sized and reinforced is a good thing. I would start at the basement with your favorite architect and engineers and work your way up in assessing structure and systems. Even if the basement is structurally sound, there is probably no exterior drain tile, liquid waterproofing and foundation insulation, which should be added. I agree with both you and EM that all interior surfaces and systems should be stripped out and replaced, to avoid mold, pest infestation, lacks of insulation, electrical and HVAC systems etc. I also agree that the review of codes, zoning, historic preservation, energy conservation/green issues will probably be extensive anywhere in New York.
It will probably cost more to renovate this house as to build the same from scratch, but if you can salvage some of a great old piece of indigenous historic architecture, the whole will be greater than the sum of the parts! I’ll be very interested to see the program and preliminary design. Let the games begin! – Gary
I’m not too excited, am I?
#9 by EM on September 16, 2010 - 12:05 am
So in looking at the plans closely, I see at least 3 major additions: The original central part of the house, flanked by two wings and that sunroom. The center part of the house, the one with the two windows on the second floor, looks to be older than late 1800s. On the first floor, I think the line runs across the front flat part by the hallway. Where the wall changes in the living room (and back to the dining room closet) and den, that looks like the original house. I’ll bet the staircase was narrow because there were only 2 rooms on the first floor? So let’s see, where was the original fireplace….
I would imagine that the downstairs bedroom was the first addition as maybe the kitchen? The porch looks familiar to what I have seen on other houses that connect the kitchen to the main house.
This is a fun game, but now I want to see the interior details of the fireplace. Are the walls plaster? Once you remove the walls can you tell the original footprint of the house? I have heard some marvelous stories about what people FIND when they remove the walls. If you’re careful maybe you’ll find shoe button hooks, old wallpaper, love letters, whiskey bottles and, sadly, mice carcasses.
There is also something amiss with the roofline.
Please V., give us more clues! (And the winner gets a signed copy of your new book.)
#10 by Acanthus & Acorn on September 16, 2010 - 12:47 am
I can see why they were willing to take a gamble, there is something appealing about it. But, no doubt this is the sort of daunting undertaking that will keep you awake at night. Excited to tune in to see the process unfold!
#11 by Daniel DeSantis on September 16, 2010 - 1:16 am
This is going to be a fantastic project! I am so looking forward to following along. What an great idea to blog about it Vincente!
#12 by Gary Nelling on September 16, 2010 - 2:30 am
Good eye, EM! It does appear that the ends of the house are additions. At first I thought only the living and dining room were additions and they had re-sided part of the house because the existing and newer windows appear to match in height and width on each floor (not including the French doors which are newer), which is unusual for additions. But you can see what appears to be an original two-story, three-bedroom house in the center. It would mean there are beams in or below the living room and dining room ceilings carrying the overhanging second floor where the bump out in the front elevation occurs. It would also mean that there is a structural header above the French doors in the dining room on which one beam rests or hangs. It is odd that they wouldn’t have left the first floor exterior wall intact when they only gained a couple feet of width in the living room when they could have just extend the addition two more feet for less expense.
It also means that the stair was reframed, perhaps they to meet current rise/run codes and to create a stair to the basement. The laundry room and baths on both floors are clearly renovations. The gable on the rear elevation may have been added too, because it would have made no sense functionally or visually in the original house. The newer hip roof over the living and dining rooms has a lower slope because its ridge beams and peak must intersect below the tall windows, which is an awkward solution. The saddlebag on the front appears to be original and the sunroom/porch enclosed rather than added.
There are many mysteries in the evolution of this house which I hope are revealed and shared after investigative demolition as-builts are completed. – Gary
#13 by Vanessa on September 16, 2010 - 2:55 am
This is so exciting – for you, your clients and all of us who get to follow along. Looking forward to seeing this ugly duckling turn into a swan.
#14 by katiedid on September 16, 2010 - 3:45 am
I am looking forward to seeing your creativity and talent. There is nothing I like better than an old house with soul.
#15 by EM on September 16, 2010 - 12:41 pm
Now, the other idea is that the original structure was much smaller, a square in fact–1 room on the first floor and two on the second. You can see the horizontal line clearly on the upper level–the rear bathroom wall. Perhaps the structure was doubled later–even only 5 years later, adding what is now the kitchen and third bedroom, and then, either at the same time or later, the porch wing. It sounds so piecemeal but remember, Mt. Vernon started out as a 2 room farmhouse.
The fact that there is no fireplace is weird, but perhaps the structure wasn’t intended to be lived in? (What is a Coast Guard House?) It could have started life as an outbuilding. Or, the fireplace was removed/demolished/relocated to the living room.
#16 by mandy on September 16, 2010 - 12:58 pm
What a great segment. Looking forward to this.
#17 by PatrickMolloy on September 16, 2010 - 7:54 pm
Ready to Help!, Furnish IT!
#18 by Ann on September 16, 2010 - 8:23 pm
I am an avid remodeler and will be excitedly following your progress. Good luck. Ann
#19 by Lisa on September 17, 2010 - 12:07 am
This is my dream project..the house not many people would touch and the money to really do it right. Looks like a light filled space and I love the classic yet modern layout. So tired of kitchen greatrooms. This is a layout a family can live in and entertain. Looking forward to seeing the interior design.
#20 by cb on September 17, 2010 - 1:25 pm
Wow, great old windows, can you save them if they have the old wavy glass and do wood storms for winter and wood screens for summer? Old windows are such character in an old house. I have an 1865 house with original windows and I love them. Looking forward to the progress.
#21 by sweetfields on September 18, 2010 - 1:47 pm
The front of the house has a wonderful “musicality”:
the contrast of horizontal and vertical — clapboard and windows), and the forward and back placement of the porches connected with the main box. (Perhaps that pattern could be continued around the sides and to the back.)
I also like the transparency — being able to see through the living room and dining room to the light beyond.
#22 by Roberta DAvis on September 18, 2010 - 3:43 pm
I might leave the LR and DR floor plans alone and focus on reconfiguring kit, den, mudroom, baths and BR on the first floor. Make the back BR an office, and flip the front bath to the other side of the wall, where the mudroom is now, to create a larger family/media room in front.
On the second floor, borrow some space from the master bath for the kids’ bath and reconfigure the master bath and closet area. I know how you hate small bathrooms!
This is outside, maybe not in your control, but the front porch would be more welcoming and maybe more practical if it was open, allowing for getting out of the rain while opening the front door. The way it is now, visitors would be standing in the rain at the front door of the porch. If they want a sunroom, I’d put it off the den or DR in the back.
How fun to play along with you, Vicente! Thanks for sharing with us.
#23 by Jadyn on September 19, 2010 - 3:19 pm
Oh my, they are a brave couple. I am sure with your help it will come out stunning though. Looking forward to following along!
#24 by Fred on September 20, 2010 - 2:08 am
I’m surprised some have suggested making the kitchen smaller, but then I love to cook and this kitchen looks big enough to include some details I can’t do in my space.
I’d keep a big double sink in roughly the same spot, and to the left I’d place a RAISED dishwasher and wall mounted ovens further left. The deep storage to the right of the door would work well for closets, a deep pantry and fridge, while the wall that backs up to the stair could handle shallower storage, with a chair in the corner. At the room’s center I would want an island with a downdraft vent system and seating for impromptu meals and chatting up the cook over a glass of wine. And no upper cabinets at all!
#25 by Dawn on September 21, 2010 - 5:37 pm
My favorite kind of project. There is great potential and I am sure that in your hands, it will be lovely. Bravo to you and the client for choosing to save the house and breathe new life into it.
#26 by Karen on October 21, 2010 - 7:22 pm
Vincente! Been wanting to meet you and have heard such great things from my great friend Mrs. M over the years from you. I work with some designers doing their PR so I know your work from the industry too! Can’t wait to see the progress on this project. Let’s make sure we toast and meet with Mr. and Mrs. M in the future!